Seeing Moo last weekend crystallized some nagging feelings about Welsh breeding and showing I've had for a while. I love this breed, why am I not more passionate about getting involved in every single part of it?
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| Maybe the most fun I've ever had at a Welsh Show |
The answer, I think, is that I'm a performance person first and a Welsh person second, and there are a lot of Welsh out there that can't perform in a sporthorse way. There are, certainly, a lot that can and some breeders that do focus on it. But those often aren't the ones that we (as a breed/association/judges, UK and US both) put up as our "Supreme Champions", which is a halter class. And while we have performance classes at breed shows too, quite a lot of them actually, they don't get the same breathless respect as "Did you hear who the judge put up as Supreme?", which in turn does influence breeding decisions and the overall direction of the breed.
It bothers me that we (breed/association/judges, UK and US both) wouldn't pin this horse very well in halter.
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| He didn't just win at NDPC, he DOMINATED his divisions (Second Level and Second Level Freestyle). Nobody else was even close to him. |
Compared to this, which does pin well, both in terms of conformation and unfortunately in terms of weight also. You almost have to get your horses overweight to pin well in-hand at the more prestigious shows, which doesn't sit well with me.
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| Real photo colored in to protect the innocent. |
So I started down a rabbit hole inside my own head.
What are we doing to promote good canters in Welsh Cobs? If our Supreme Champion only ever has to walk and trot and stand still in hand, are we inadvertently breeding poor canters into our horses? I think we are on the whole, although certainly not everyone is, and I don't think anyone means to. The back conformation above can do a big, ground covering driving trot with his hind legs out behind him, but he won't have a sport horse trot or canter.
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| More plz. |
Without outcrossing - are we fundamentally changing the breed if we breed sportier trots and canters into Welsh Cobs? One of the hallmarks of a Welsh Cob IS that efficient, ground covering trot that goes out, not up. They were bred to have a trot stride as big as a full-size horse, keeping up with warhorses while pulling supply wagons and needing minimal food along the way. They were ridden also, but they weren't so much selected for that as they were driving.
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| Connor doesn't have a great sporthorse canter. Lisa HAS bred better canters into successive generations of her horses since the Connor days (20+ years ago!!) which is one of the reasons I love her program.(Yes, this was a counter canter.) |
If we fundamentally change the breed, is it still a Welsh Cob? If it canters up rather than out? If we select for pushing power rather than pulling power? This is a question by itself, but see next question.
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| Also never scored well in Welsh halter classes |
Are we (rare breed people using their animals in sport) trying to make everything a Warmblood? I don't think so, but I do think we're trying to adapt our animals to what people want to use them for in 2025. Just like I used to say with my old house I renovated, I'm always going to respect it for what it is and I won't try to turn it into what it isn't, but that doesn't mean it needs to be a museum to a time gone past. It's allowed to evolve.
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| I don't need you to be a Warmblood, I just need you to be you. |
What is it that makes a Welsh Cob a Welsh Cob? To me, it's a compact, hardy animal with a strong sense of self-preservation that can be trusted to generally make good decisions in their own interest and the interest of their human. They blur the lines between pony and horse, have great hair (duh), a relatively upright neck, and connect deeply with people in a way not every breed does. They have a sense of humor and a conformation that enables them to do a lot of different sports well, even if they're never going to the Olympics in any of them.
So...what can we do about it? I have some thoughts on that too, but that's a post for a different day.
I (of course) have so many thoughts on this as well. I do think a quality canter needs to be made more important, since the reality is more people are riding than driving (or showing in hand) these days. I feel like there are always plenty of them with good canters and acceptably to type conformation, so it's not a new thing, it's just something we could consider more when making breeding choices. I have seen a few wildly varying conformation 'types' lately which makes me a little nervous because my heart just wants a bunch of what Lisa breeds - 99% of us just want a nice welsh cob to do all the things on. Our national breed (the Canadian horse) is similar to a welsh cob/old style morgan by breed standard but (in my personal non breeder opinion only) a lot have gone the way of losing type to adapt to a specific market - they're anything from cobby trotting ponies to drafty to quite big and sporty depending on the breeder. I always wanted a traditional 'all purpose' one , but they're very hard to find, hence my intro to welsh cobs years ago. I'd hate to see the same thing happen with our cobs. As a fun side note - Buck, my black, very typical, cob boy has had a few people ask "hey where did you find the really nice Canadian?! I've been looking for one like that forever" so I do think there is a demand for the traditional type and some of the Canadian breeders are maybe missing out a little bit. For now, I just direct them to Jen and the world of welsh cobs :)
ReplyDeleteOh man, that was a novel and a half, sorry!
DeleteIt’s an interesting topic — having a solid canter makes so many aspects of sport (especially jumping sports) much much MUCH easier… it seems like we are seeing more traditionally driving bred horses come into sport now tho, our area for whatever reason seems to have increasing numbers of Dutch harness horses. Ngl some of them… don’t look like fun to jump, but some are doing very well in dressage! Idk much about the breeder side of things other than typical supply/demand economics that presumably stalwarts of the breed will continue trying to develop the models folks want to buy
ReplyDeleteI can't speak totally to welsh and the canter from the breeding perspective, and I'm not sure I qualify to speak on the sport horse side either but I'll take a stab at it. I think we may be stuck asking the breed to evolve, but the key might be to evolve in a way that improves the breed as whole, but doesn't change those characteristics that make the breed what it is. A better quality canter can serve a lot of purposes in a lot of disciplines, and I think a lot of people are looking for that hearty personable opinionated types of horses. I think there is the fine line to dance of improving the breed without straying too far from it's origins, but at the same time the demand will drive what stallions are used and we may be forced to evolve, not just welsh cobs. I could be 100% wrong, but it is definitely an interesting conversation to have.
ReplyDeleteThis was quite an interesting read. I, as you already know, adore the welsh part of Butterball. I think he got the common sense, self preservation, and deep connection to his people. I have thought, as I've looked at the Welsh Cobs, that for my performance purposes, the section B x warmblood will probably continue to be best for me.
ReplyDeleteOh, I love your thoughts here and absolutely love seeing more cobs bred for sport, with good canters. The typical winning halter cob is far from my ideal. I think breeds should adapt to what they are being used for and there's such a huge market for lovely all around welsh cobs for both children and adults. We need more of them!
ReplyDeleteThese are such important questions and you articulate your thoughts so well. Great post! And I especially love your last point about what makes a Welsh Cob a Welsh Cob.
ReplyDeleteLoool, "to protect the innocent". I appreciate you putting this topic into words in such a thought-provoking way. The traits you described that "make a Welsh Cob" are exactly the reason I recently became a member of the pony club, buying Nova as my next adventure partner. The S-shaped, weak back exhibited in the covered up photo is something that I see frequently in the breed, but is definitely something I strongly avoided when searching for the cob for me. I want something that will have longevity both under saddle and in harness. It reminds me of the extreme swings in other breeds, like halter-bred quarter horses, or even in dog breeds, like the brachycephalic dogs that can't breathe. In my mind, breeding for the extremes that end up compromising the integrity of the animal is doing it a disservice. While I don't know that Welsh Cobs have quite gone to that extreme when you're talking about quality of trot or canter, I think balancing their ability to do that quintessential ground covering trot without sacrificing an equally high quality canter is something breeders should consider.
ReplyDeleteIt's one of the reasons I had not involved myself in Welsh minus one show. The conformation and gaits are not sustainable within what is currently accepted as conformational standard. The majority of breeders are hoping to sell upper level without looking at what an upper level horse is.
ReplyDeleteI would love another but I haven't found something that really sits me on my heels (and trust me I do want one)
We have exactly the same issue going on with our own rare native breed, the Nooitgedachter, and it's a divisive issue. Breeders tend to become die-hards in one of two camps---breeding for type, or breeding for performance. There's a balance between the two that's not easy to find. Breeding too hard for performance makes the Nooitie no longer a Nooitie, but breeding too much for type makes the Nooitie completely irrelevant.
ReplyDelete