Showing posts with label tongue over bit. Show all posts
Showing posts with label tongue over bit. Show all posts

July 6, 2021

Tongue Stuff - Part the Zillionth

Last winter, we played with switching his bits up, but by the time show season started and the work got harder, it was clear that we needed to go back to the Bombers Happy Tongue Loose Ring Straight.

In one particularly frustrating April lesson in which he didn't even give me a chance to ride well before getting his tongue over the single-jointed nathe, I remember CGP puzzling through it with me. "It's so weird, because he actually goes BETTER once he gets it over. He lifts the base of his neck when it's over." "I know," I said, "It's part of the reason you see me get so anxious when he's going well, because if he going well and the contact isn't super heavy, it probably means he's got it over or he's about to get it over."

 

The more common version of the Bombers Happy Tongue Loose Ring has a forward curve (top), but Connor strongly prefers the straight version (bottom).

So we switched back to the Bombers in April, and although he was initially a little backed off the contact in it (probably because he was trying to figure out a way to suck his tongue back and get it over!), he soon started going really well in it. 

(Side note: Mary cannot square herself with the idea that you can have finesse and subtlety of aids with a straight bar bit. To the point that it's kind of adorable, lol. I keep telling her she needs to check her biases at the door, because if I can ride Second/almost Third level Dressage in it, she has all the finesse she needs to get him around a 2' jump course.)

It's physically difficult for him to get his tongue over in the Bombers, which has a very high port (and he has a low palate as well). He didn't get his tongue over in it again until he did it once with me during a virtual lesson in June, and then did it on CGP last week.

The post-solstice summer coat shed has begun
 

Her approach in the past has been to assume it's an expression of pain elsewhere in the body, or related to my heavy-handed riding, but she knows him well enough now to know that last week, he did it just to get out of the work, which is a habit I've reinforced over the years by getting off to put his tongue back once it's over.

"So I rode the pants off of him with it over until he put it back, which took about 25 minutes," she said. "I said okay, if that's your choice you're going to work HARD as long as its over, and then as soon as he put it back under we quit. Then the next day's ride he was SPECTACULAR. I don't think he's going to try that again anytime soon."

Unrelated Hank pic

"I'm so glad you did that," I said. "I've often wanted to do that myself because I hate that my reaction to him getting it over has to be to stop what we're doing, get off, and put it back under, it's like a reward and it's getting him out of the work," I said, "But I don't have the timing or skills you do to be confident enough to actually push through it and I never know if continuing to work with it over is the right answer or not, like I don't want to normalize that behavior."

As I said in the past, this problem is never going to completely go away with this horse, but the fact that I can count on one hand the number of times he's done it since last winter, and the fact that CGP keeps giving me more tools in my toolkit to deal with it, are both wins in my book.

December 7, 2020

How We (Mostly) Fixed Connor's Tongue Over the Bit Habit

Connor's tongue-over-the-bit issues are not something I've fully documented on this blog. I've mentioned them every so often, but not as often as it happens.

To find a picture to illustrate the problem, I picked a random Year/Month photo folder in which I thought I probably showed, picked a random photo to look at to see if his mouth was gaping open, and found one immediately. If that doesn't tell you how prevalent this problem really is, I don't know what will. Photo from September of 2017.

I created it initially with my heavy-handed riding, and then it turned into a habit, his default reaction to the work getting hard, which, in retrospect, probably held us back as much as anything, because I was afraid of asking him to step up his game for fear of triggering an episode. As soon as things got challenging in a ride, he'd get it over, no matter what trainer we were riding with or what bridle we were riding in.

At this point, it's as fixed as it will ever be, so I wanted to share what worked and what didn't in case any of you find yourselves in this unfortunate situation. In chronological order:

 Riding in the Bombers Happy Tongue Loose Ring, straight bar version

 

The bottom bit

This is the only bit that he wouldn't - or couldn't - get his tongue over, and it gave me an opening into breaking the habit. We rode in it for a year after the bit fitting clinic at CGP's, and it helped to break the habit, although I'm not riding in it permanently - CGP eventually said I needed more finesse for Dressage than the straight bar gave me.

 

Kissing double jointed bits goodbye

 


Connor has very short lips, and double-jointed bits, especially loose rings, seem to hang low on his tongue and were an invitation to him to get his tongue over. At this point, I can't imagine ever going back to a double-jointed bit with him, we've had so much more success with a single joint.

 

Fixing myself

 


This, obviously, is the biggest thing. I had to identify what pulling was (it wasn't what I thought it was), why I pulled (because I didn't have enough core tension to keep me stable in the saddle, so I used my hands to compensate), what I needed to do to break that habit (rediscover some dead neural-muscular connections, strengthen my core AND make my newly-strengthened core my brain's default unconscious go-to) and how to do it (Pilates).  

 

One rein riding


I do this less and less these days, but CGP telling me to ride him with one rein in small circles when he gets fussy with his mouth really helped. It changes the physical and mental paradigm of the moments before he'd normally get it over, and it also gives me an "If x happens, do y" type of tool that I can remember to use on my own.

 

Letting someone else earn back his trust of the contact



Temporarily giving up the ride had to happen. Four straight months of someone with amazing hands and great timing had to happen. I caused this problem, but I could not have solved it on my own.

 

Taking the bit away

I don't have any pictures of the sidepull, so how about a picture of a dog pulling at my side?

She only rode him in the sidepull a few times, but it was enough to break his ingrained habits. His relationship to the bridle was truly different after a few times in the sidepull - not to mention he was PISSED at having his favorite pressure release valve taken away.


Learning to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Two months ago, in a ride in which I distinctly remember CGP saying "You did a good job not freaking out about his mouth being busy today," and me saying "Oh I was freaking out on the inside."

He may not be getting his tongue over these days, but when the work gets hard he still defaults to a fussy mouth. CGP is adamant that I have to ride through it, that I can't interpret him mouthing the bit as a sign to back off, that I can't live in fear of him getting it over or we'll never progress. This is a work in progress - I know she's right, but this isn't something I'll rewire in my brain overnight.


Chiro, Massage and Ulcer Treatment

Best boy deserves the best treatments

I do think there's something to CGP's theory that pain elsewhere in the body makes him more likely to express his tension via his mouth. At this point he's been treated for foregut and hindgut ulcers, and he's been getting both chiro and bodywork at CGP's with great success. Bodywork in particular has made a huge difference, although that's a story for another day.


Finding a noseband he likes

Stillllll waiting (three months after I ordered it) for my Schockemohle drop to come in, thanks COVID.

I had basically ridden this horse in everything BUT a drop over the years, but it turns out he really prefers the drop. It also turns out that Micklem =/= drop, and he prefers the bit hangers not be attached to the noseband. Who knew?


This problem will never go away after he's done it for years, but at this point we can work with it and manage it, at least to the point that I can confidently say it won't happen in the show ring.

September 6, 2017

A Big, Guilty Confession

Real talk time: My lifetime best 1-3 from the rated show last month was not the biggest reason I was thrilled with that show.

August 2017.  Photo by Lisa Brezina

I have a confession to make, something I haven't written much about out of, y'know, guilt and shame: For years, Connor has continued to get his tongue over the bit maybe once a month, usually during lessons when we were applying pressure or trying something new, and often at shows (but only ever in the warmup).

Tension.  May 2015.


The reason why he felt like he needed to put his tongue over the bit started to become clear this summer.  He stopped doing it entirely starting around June, or, around the time I really started to become aware of and fix my pulling elbows and tense thighs.

July 2013, Leg Up HT, the first time he ever got his tongue over the bit.
Also, lol, those braids.
I know getting the tongue over the bit becomes a habit for horses, but Connor was using it to communicate to me that something was wrong, so he stopped when I stopped.  Even after all that time.

He was only doing it to escape from the pressure, so when I took the pressure away, he didn't feel like he needed to do it anymore.  I know I'm lucky it didn't turn into a habit, and I know horses are forgiving, but I honestly don't feel like I deserve that level of forgiveness from him, poor guy.  How did we get so lucky to have creatures this noble in our lives?

My body is like a vice around him here, you can see the tension in my shoulders and hips. May 2015.

He hadn't even thought about putting his tongue over the bit in maybe 6 or 8 weeks by the July 2017 IDS show, when he got his tongue over the bit in warmup there.

Two things hit me like lightning as I got off to put his tongue back.  #1: My riding has been causing the tongue issue all this time, and  #2: Even if I had solved it at home, I was riding him totally differently at shows.  More pressure, more tension, more hands, reverting back to my old habits as I imposed my artificially created mental pressure on him.

Heartland, April 2014

He couldn't know that day was our second level kamikaze run and I was freaked out about going into the ring without him on my aids.  He just wants me to be the same rider no matter what.  Doubly so because he's a big chicken, and he needs a consistent leader to make him feel safe in a big scary show environment.  He likes sameness and predictability.  It's why he didn't want to event.

Aaaaaaaaand everyone's seen this before but it doesn't make this picture any less amazing, our very first Dressage test ever, June 2012.

So at August's rated show, more than anything else, I just wanted to prove to Connor that I could be the same rider for him at shows as I am at home.  And I was.  He's never been that soft or relaxed at a show before.

He even focused on me more, probably because my body wasn't saying "Something is wrong!  Be nervous!"  I felt it, but seeing Lisa's pictures proves it.

Out of all the photos she took, it's hard to find any in which it looks like I'm pulling on him.  It's the most open I've ever seen his throatlatch and the most relaxed I've ever seen his topline - and the most forward I've ever seen my elbows.

August 2017.  Elbows forward.  Photo by Lisa Brezina

We still have such a long way to go, but we weren't going to go anywhere real until we fixed this foundational hole.  We could've faked our way up the levels, but it would have been just that, faking it.  With an unhappy horse.

August 2017.  Rider needs to sit up, haha.  But I'm STILL not pulling even sitting like this.

I am so grateful to this little horse for not chucking my ass a single time over the years as I slowly learned and grew as a rider, and continuing to nicker at me every time he sees me to this day.  I hope I can make it up to him with many more years of much more enjoyable riding for both of us, because I really have internalized these changes and I'm never going back to the way I rode before.  He deserves every Mrs. Pastures cookie he gets and then some!

February 12, 2016

(Beta) Product Review: Neue Schule Verbindend Bit

Aimee is going to be one satisfied person reading this lesson recap.  Enjoy, my tack loving friend, I took lots of shiny gold pictures for you.


I'm calling this a beta review, because I don't think one ride is an accurate test of a bit, so I plan to do a more thorough one later, but I couldn't wait to share with you guys anyway.

Connor went amazingly well in the Neue Schule Verbindend bit in my lesson last night.  I'm not ready to call it a fix - as my trainer pointed out, he could just be momentarily distracted by the new feeling in his mouth - but despite knowing one ride is not enough evidence to call it one way or another, I can't deny that things happened last night that usually don't happen.

1. He mouthed the bit at the canter.  (THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED).

2. He did not shake his head a single time.

3. He did not get his tongue over the bit, in fact, he didn't even try.  I don't think his tongue came out of his mouth once.

4. He was so unusually steady in the bridle with a really nice amount of feel.

5. I felt that he "got" my rein aids with less - less movement, less weight, less everything.  I could be quieter.  Maybe this was a self-fulfilling prophecy or something.

6. We had a really lovely ride.


A couple of notes:
- I sized up 1/4" from his usual 5 1/4 due to the shape of the bit, and it fits well.
- It is FEI and USDF Dressage legal and says so right on the tag (word on the street is that it may not be legal in Canadian Dressage??  Unconfirmed.)
- I had two options for the mouthpiece diameter, 12mm and 16mm.  I went with 16mm since Connor has clearly demonstrated a dislike of thin bits in the past.  I believe 16mm is slightly larger than the Sprenger KK we've been riding in more or less for four years straight now. (From what I gather from this post, that bit may be the only one Aimee has ever sold...)

Hard to see here, but the outside branches of the bit are angled so that they point the center section forward and down the tongue a bit.

I bought mine from Smartpak, who will take it back if it doesn't work just like anything else, although if you want a more legitimate bit trial program, Hastilow Saddlery offers a 10 day trial on all Neue Schule bits.  If you return it, they refund 90% of what you paid for it. ($120-ish)

The manufacturer's writeup on exactly what it should do for you.  So far...my skeptical self is pleasantly surprised.
ETA: I disagree that a snaffle can't possibly be severe, minus one point for NS on that one.

So no, I'm not going to start blaming all of our problems on tack, and I am not calling this a magic bullet.  I still have to ride well, with more attention to bend and less hands and less movement in my body.  And I'll give it some more rides before I make any call one way or another, but so far, he definitely seems to prefer it.

February 8, 2016

Tongue Over the Bit

Lately, Connor has started getting his tongue over the bit more often.  He first did it at one of our first shows in 2013 while stressed, and did it about once a year after that until the last couple of months.

Since that the work has gotten harder, he has started putting his tongue over the bit at a very specific point in the ride, only in lessons: after he's done really good work, (not mediocre work, it has to be really outstanding work, hence the only-in-lessons thing), then we've given him a nice long walk break, he does it after I pick him back up again to start the second half of the lesson.  It's consistent enough that I know how to ride him to avoid it, so NBD as far as showing is concerned.

Nice pulled mane

My trainer, not one to anthropomorphize at all, said it seems like a protest move or a game.  He puts it over, and then usually puts it back himself.  A few times he didn't, and my trainer had to put it back for him - although after a couple of times of that, he started anticipating it, and now puts it back himself after she starts walking toward him and before she can actually touch his mouth.

I'm not too worried about it, but I do have a responsibility to make sure it's not physical.  The moment it started occurring with any regularity, I asked that the dentist be called ASAP, so that's scheduled for February 23.

Side note: I LOVE our dentist, who brings a laptop with him and emails me a digital chart of Connor's mouth just like at the human dentist, along with photos and a description of what his mouth looked like before and what was done.  (He's also really good at teeth in addition to technology).  Yes, yes, yes.


I'm also using it as an excuse to do a trial on a Neue Schule bit I've had my eye on for a while.  It should be here Thursday, which gives me a lesson and a couple of rides before the show to decide if I should show in it on Sunday or not.

Finally, the way I ride seems to contribute: the less I do with my hands and the more stable my hip angle, the less likely it is that he will get his tongue over the bit.  I know he has issues if my position moves a millimeter, so it's possible that my position and hands are solid in the "outstanding work" first part of the ride, then the "noise" of me picking up the reins and probably moving around more in the saddle might be too much for him.

What I am not trying is a flash.  Connor is telling me something has changed, I know how to control it, and I'm taking steps to rule out pain.  I believe in this case, for a horse not used to going in one, a flash would just be masking the issue, and I'd rather solve it (before it becomes a self-serving habit) than mask it.

June 30, 2013

Leg Up HT - with Pictures and Video!

Edit: My RSS feeder (Feedly) cut this post off on my phone after the video with a "Visit Website" button.  There are a lot of cute pony pictures after the video, you'll miss out if you stop there!

What an emotional weekend.  From the low point on Friday night, to completely neutral after a terrible Dressage ride, to elation after finishing on my Dressage score, (which was my goal for this show) it was a rollercoaster.  A beautiful, fun, rollercoaster that I am completely hooked on and wish I could do every single weekend!

Happy rider and distracted pony are ready for Dressage

By Saturday morning I had let go of Friday, and we had an amazing, focused Dressage warmup. Then, sometime between walking out of the warmup ring and entering the ring for my test, he got his tongue over the bit!  What a terrible time to try that one out for the first time, buddy!  I had no idea what was wrong with him until my trainer saw it afterward, and only after I knew that did my test, in which he was super braced, his head was up, he was unsteerable and he was pinwheeling around my inside leg, make a lot of sense.  By the grace of some generous judging (scores from 4-7), we got a 46, which landed us in 2nd to last in out division.  I was really in control of my emotions after Friday, though, so I let it go and headed for SJ.  I kept telling myself, "I'm living the dream!" because actually getting to event still seems so surreal!

Video of our entire show jumping round:


It felt AWESOME!  I said I wanted to do this show for show jumping redemption, and I got it.  His canter wasn't as compressed and over his hocks as I've gotten it in practice, but these jumps were so small, that was not a huge deal.  The important thing is that he was confident and enjoying it, and it was SMOOTH, unlike GDHT, and we went double clear, moving us up to 5th.

Then this happened:
Dear Johnson County Commissioners: J Barn needs gutters, yo.
and Connor took a nap on my shoulder as I sat in a lawn chair in front of his stall, watching and listening to the rain fall.  It was a cute bonding moment.

View of napping pony
Finally, it was time for XC, and the sun came out just as I was heading over for it.  We popped just a few warmup fences, until my position was really solid after some coaching, and headed out.  My little cross-country machine ate up every fence like it was his job!  He took a trot step before almost every fence, and I think that's because the footing was chewed up and sticky at the takeoff point, since we were the last XC ride of the day.  I don't mind that kind of caution.  Otherwise, we cantered the whole thing, and when I pulled him up at the end of the 1,408m long course, which had three more jumps than at GD, I realized he wasn't even blowing.  We've been working on his stamina with hacks and jump schools, and it's clearly paid off.

Check out these awesome XC photos taken by Andrea of My Horses Love Eventing, a fellow eventer who owns another Castleberry horse, a Welsh Cob X Warmblood cross by Connor's sire.  She was jump judging/taking photos at jump 3, the step/coop option (we took the step).






And here's another XC photo, taken by a teammate.  This is fence 7:

I'm jumping ahead, but check out that scope and that improved pony form!
His only real hesitation was when I asked him to canter through the water, which, as I asked, I realized we'd only trotted water before.  So he cantered in like a brave boy and then broke to this trot with ridiculously high knee action, even for Mr. Cob Trot himself.  I can't blame him, the water is pretty deep for a 14hh pony with short cannon bones!

In the end, it was a good thing I cantered the whole thing because there turned out to be an optimum time for the Starter XC course, which I didn't know about and thought was unusual.  Only two rides in our division finished with no time faults, and we were one of them, so we ended up placing a very unexpected 2nd!  Regardless of what color ribbon we got, I was over the moon about the way he handled XC and SJ.  He even jumped the bogey haybales without questioning or swerving!  Where did my spooky pony go, and who is this mature, confident jumping machine that replaced him???  I love it!

I also got to meet Sabrina, aka Weenie Eventer, (which was an awesome converstion.  We're both on horseback passing each other and she stops and says, "Hey, are you Cob Jockey?  I'm Weenie Eventer!") and Andrea of My Horses Love Eventing for the first time.  I also saw Amy and Steady in the warmup ring but had a debate in my own head over whether or not that was really Steady, and did not say hi - I feel terrible!  They had an awesome weekend, I hope she gets a chance to post a writeup.  Steady is going really well!

I'm so proud of Connor, so excited for the way the weekend went, and so ready for my next event - which is wholly dependent on Nick getting a job.  Come on, baby, this pony is ready to go!